Comments on: Sorority Initiations Revealed, Part I http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/ What is seen and what is unseen. Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:23:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Amber Dardar http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1999 Amber Dardar Wed, 09 May 2007 01:19:08 +0000 http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/#comment-1999 I think that it is fair to limit who is in a certain group or club. I do not think it is fair to limit people because of their appearence or body type. People should be judge upon their actions and personality. Being thin does not make you a good nor bad person so they should not be limited because of that. I don't think it matters if the title of the organization changes. I think peolpe should be allowed in groups/clubs because they have the same intrest as the other people in the group. I think the line should be drawn depending on the common intrest of the club. That is the main point of a club, to have people with the same intrest as on another. I think that it is fair to limit who is in a certain group or club. I do not think it is fair to limit people because of their appearence or body type. People should be judge upon their actions and personality. Being thin does not make you a good nor bad person so they should not be limited because of that. I don’t think it matters if the title of the organization changes. I think peolpe should be allowed in groups/clubs because they have the same intrest as the other people in the group. I think the line should be drawn depending on the common intrest of the club. That is the main point of a club, to have people with the same intrest as on another.

]]> By: Ashleigh Rocker http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1965 Ashleigh Rocker Tue, 01 May 2007 16:38:49 +0000 http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/#comment-1965 I dont think it is fair to exclude any kind of person from being in your sorority/club. It should be more about someone's interest in the organization and their personality, not their looks. Being thin or heavy doesn't say anything about someones character, and that to me is alot more important. I dont think it makes a difference if you change the title of soroity to club or any other name. No matter what your title, you should allow interested people into your organization. Although, i can totally understand not letting people join based on their GPA. Grades are important and should make a difference on deciding to let a person join. If someone doesn't care about their grades in school, they probably wont care about helping your organization in any way. I dont think it is fair to exclude any kind of person from being in your sorority/club. It should be more about someone’s interest in the organization and their personality, not their looks. Being thin or heavy doesn’t say anything about someones character, and that to me is alot more important. I dont think it makes a difference if you change the title of soroity to club or any other name. No matter what your title, you should allow interested people into your organization. Although, i can totally understand not letting people join based on their GPA. Grades are important and should make a difference on deciding to let a person join. If someone doesn’t care about their grades in school, they probably wont care about helping your organization in any way.

]]> By: Steve W http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1508 Steve W Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:28:40 +0000 http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/#comment-1508 Delta Zeta has got their website back up and have a long rambling response at http://www.deltazeta.org/ First blush reading it is that they feel wronged and it isn't their reponsibility in their minds. They are complete failures at handling the media, and seem to have no comprehension that when is a "trial by media" not handling the media well leads to conviction in the public's eye, regardless of what the facts might be. Darwin wrote about non-adaptive organisms being replaced by adaptive organisms. DZ may well be in its "Swan Song" through failing to understand and handle PR alone. Steve Delta Zeta has got their website back up and have a long rambling response at http://www.deltazeta.org/

First blush reading it is that they feel wronged and it isn’t their reponsibility in their minds.

They are complete failures at handling the media, and seem to have no comprehension that when is a “trial by media” not handling the media well leads to conviction in the public’s eye, regardless of what the facts might be.

Darwin wrote about non-adaptive organisms being replaced by adaptive organisms. DZ may well be in its “Swan Song” through failing to understand and handle PR alone.

Steve

]]> By: chad http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1507 chad Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:50:37 +0000 http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/#comment-1507 Just to follow up - here's the article from cnn.com on Depauw severing ties with DZ. http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/03/12/troubled.sorority.ap/index.html Just to follow up – here’s the article from cnn.com on Depauw severing ties with DZ.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/03/12/troubled.sorority.ap/index.html

]]> By: Steve W http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1506 Steve W Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:44:24 +0000 http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/#comment-1506 As could be expected this Sorority has gotten the boot - to quote "beginning next fall, Delta Zeta will no longer be permitted to house students in its Greek-columned house on the DePauw campus in Greencastle, Ind. " So the "granting authority" of the DePauw franchise of Authority for Delta Zeta has reacted by withdrawing DZ's "trading authority." At DePauw DZ has lost its market access. One wonders if DZ was naiive enough to think their actions could take place without repercussions? Interesting the Delta Zeta National office is refusing to speak to the media, offered only some unrepentant hollow comments, and appears basically inept at handling its own affairs. Their national website is down, perhaps under media pressure. Perhaps a managerial team with enough accomplishment to rescue Delta Zeta will restore Delta Zeta to an effective organization, but presently they are living up to the "Dizzy" nickname. Anyone want to buy a cheap neo-Grecian house on frat row at DePauw? One just might be on the market shortly with the financial realities of stupid management decisions fully come home to roost. Cheers, Steve As could be expected this Sorority has gotten the boot – to quote “beginning next fall, Delta Zeta will no longer be permitted to house students in its Greek-columned house on the DePauw campus in Greencastle, Ind. ”

So the “granting authority” of the DePauw franchise of Authority for Delta Zeta has reacted by withdrawing DZ’s “trading authority.” At DePauw DZ has lost its market access.

One wonders if DZ was naiive enough to think their actions could take place without repercussions?

Interesting the Delta Zeta National office is refusing to speak to the media, offered only some unrepentant hollow comments, and appears basically inept at handling its own affairs. Their national website is down, perhaps under media pressure.

Perhaps a managerial team with enough accomplishment to rescue Delta Zeta will restore Delta Zeta to an effective organization, but presently they are living up to the “Dizzy” nickname.

Anyone want to buy a cheap neo-Grecian house on frat row at DePauw? One just might be on the market shortly with the financial realities of stupid management decisions fully come home to roost.

Cheers,

Steve

]]> By: Blake Acosta http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1430 Blake Acosta Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:31:50 +0000 http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/#comment-1430 1. Is it fair to allow limiting membership of groups? That is, is it reasonable that clubs should be able to decide who is a member of their club? Yes it is fair to allow limiting memebership to groups. Bieng in a fraternity I know what it is like to only allow certain members into a group. 2. If a sorority restricts its membership to people with the characteristic of being thin, is this acceptable? It depends, if that particular chapter set their standerds to only thin girls then it is accetable. 3. What if “thin” is replaced with “studious”? Or “socially at ease”? Or “nice”? Or “white” Or “female students at DePauw”? Or “female students”? Certain groups or clubs may have these requirements to enter their group so yes it should be accetable. 4. Does it make a difference if we change the word “club” or “sorority” to “krewe”, “country club”, “professional baseball team”, “college”, or “circle of friends”? Well this sorority endorsed its rules from the national chapter so it might make a difference if you change the word. 5. Where is line drawn? The line should be drawn if it gets out of hand. It shoudnt matter about race because all universitys have black and white greek organizations and some greek organizations might have a group wiht just thin girls and some with not thin girls. If the standerds of the sorority gets out of hand that is where you draw the line. 1. Is it fair to allow limiting membership of groups? That is, is it reasonable that clubs should be able to decide who is a member of their club?
Yes it is fair to allow limiting memebership to groups. Bieng in a fraternity I know what it is like to only allow certain members into a group.
2. If a sorority restricts its membership to people with the characteristic of being thin, is this acceptable?
It depends, if that particular chapter set their standerds to only thin girls then it is accetable.
3. What if “thin” is replaced with “studious”? Or “socially at ease”? Or “nice”? Or “white” Or “female students at DePauw”? Or “female students”?
Certain groups or clubs may have these requirements to enter their group so yes it should be accetable.
4. Does it make a difference if we change the word “club” or “sorority” to “krewe”, “country club”, “professional baseball team”, “college”, or “circle of friends”?
Well this sorority endorsed its rules from the national chapter so it might make a difference if you change the word.
5. Where is line drawn?
The line should be drawn if it gets out of hand. It shoudnt matter about race because all universitys have black and white greek organizations and some greek organizations might have a group wiht just thin girls and some with not thin girls. If the standerds of the sorority gets out of hand that is where you draw the line.

]]> By: Steve W http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1365 Steve W Thu, 01 Mar 2007 03:14:06 +0000 http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2007/02/26/sorority-initiations-revealed-part-i/#comment-1365 > 1. Is it fair to allow limiting membership of groups? That is, is it reasonable that clubs should be able to decide who is a member of their club? Yes, and Yes - but remember the expelled were Club Members excluded from the a Club (re-)selection process. > 2. If a sorority restricts its membership to people with the characteristic of being thin, is this acceptable? If that is the basis for their formation and under which they sought their operating charter, yes. Otherwise it is a selection factor outside of its self-declared purpose. > 3. What if “thin” is replaced with “studious”? Or “socially at ease”? Or “nice”? Or “white” Or “female students at DePauw”? Or “female students”? See answer above to #2 > 4. Does it make a difference if we change the word “club” or “sorority” to “krewe”, “country club”, “professional baseball team”, “college”, or “circle of friends”? Potentially, as the sorority styled club has borrowed authority from a National Level sorority and had this borrowed authority endorsed by acceptance/recognition by the university. This "legitimatization" may not be a factor in evaluation another form of social organization. > 5. Where is line drawn? Usually in the sand. Actually a sandbox might be more the case, where the intersection of law, empowering authorities, cosumer demands (a group need to be attractive - consumer pleasing - to attract members), and the groups own wishes can be combined. > When it comes down to it, the formation of clubs (at least one that does not accept all comers), leads to some form of discrimination occurring. Even if one favors one group, one is discriminating against another. Isn’t purchasing a Beyonce album discriminating against Johnny Cash albums? Surely this is not immoral, nor illegal. Not at all. Selecting & applying to a given group, like a sororiety or frat, as a candidate for membership is entering into a defining relationship, a relationship that usually includes in its agreement a requirement to not join other competing groups. A simple comsumer purchase may have tasked part of the consumers buying power, reducing their ability to buy alternative products, but it has not asked them for non-economic reasons to forego ever buying alternative products. > Is it wrong for Harvard to discriminate against people with low ACT scores? Is it wrong for the New Orleans Hornets to discriminate against slow white guys named Chad Turner (even though he has a deceptively quick first step a solid 3-point stroke) because his vertical leap is only 19 inches? No, Universities select for complex reasons, including expect test scores as a preselector for success. They are assisting their prospective consumer (much like fitting shoes) while also rationing their limited resources. It could be argued that they are unwise not to take the money off any and all comers, but award their degrees to only those who excel. Apparently this was the process before the 19c. Possibly on the second, if he is not selected for a non-playing attribute. Back to the the sorority that mad ethe news, that started this blog posting. They had been in trouble in the past for improper racial discrimination. I'd like to stress the use of the word "improper" when discrimination on any axis is improperly applied. We've had a useful word in our language hijacked for a political cause celebrity. Cheers, Steve W > 1. Is it fair to allow limiting membership of groups? That is, is it reasonable that clubs should be able to decide who is a member of their club?

Yes, and Yes – but remember the expelled were Club Members excluded from the a Club (re-)selection process.

> 2. If a sorority restricts its membership to people with the characteristic of being thin, is this acceptable?

If that is the basis for their formation and under which they sought their operating charter, yes. Otherwise it is a selection factor outside of its self-declared purpose.

> 3. What if “thin” is replaced with “studious”? Or “socially at ease”? Or “nice”? Or “white” Or “female students at DePauw”? Or “female students”?

See answer above to #2

> 4. Does it make a difference if we change the word “club” or “sorority” to “krewe”, “country club”, “professional baseball team”, “college”, or “circle of friends”?

Potentially, as the sorority styled club has borrowed authority from a National Level sorority and had this borrowed authority endorsed by acceptance/recognition by the university. This “legitimatization” may not be a factor in evaluation another form of social organization.

> 5. Where is line drawn?

Usually in the sand. Actually a sandbox might be more the case, where the intersection of law, empowering authorities, cosumer demands (a group need to be attractive – consumer pleasing – to attract members), and the groups own wishes can be combined.

> When it comes down to it, the formation of clubs (at least one that does not accept all comers), leads to some form of discrimination occurring. Even if one favors one group, one is discriminating against another. Isn’t purchasing a Beyonce album discriminating against Johnny Cash albums? Surely this is not immoral, nor illegal.

Not at all. Selecting & applying to a given group, like a sororiety or frat, as a candidate for membership is entering into a defining relationship, a relationship that usually includes in its agreement a requirement to not join other competing groups. A simple comsumer purchase may have tasked part of the consumers buying power, reducing their ability to buy alternative products, but it has not asked them for non-economic reasons to forego ever buying alternative products.

> Is it wrong for Harvard to discriminate against people with low ACT scores? Is it wrong for the New Orleans Hornets to discriminate against slow white guys named Chad Turner (even though he has a deceptively quick first step a solid 3-point stroke) because his vertical leap is only 19 inches?

No, Universities select for complex reasons, including expect test scores as a preselector for success. They are assisting their prospective consumer (much like fitting shoes) while also rationing their limited resources. It could be argued that they are unwise not to take the money off any and all comers, but award their degrees to only those who excel. Apparently this was the process before the 19c.

Possibly on the second, if he is not selected for a non-playing attribute.

Back to the the sorority that mad ethe news, that started this blog posting. They had been in trouble in the past for improper racial discrimination. I’d like to stress the use of the word “improper” when discrimination on any axis is improperly applied. We’ve had a useful word in our language hijacked for a political cause celebrity.

Cheers,

Steve W

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